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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 24, 2012 1:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

Was listening to 2-22-73 the other day as suggested by trusty clementine. I started listening to the eyes of the world and a moment where I said "I know that already". Turns out what i was hearing was also on DP 28 Disc 2. Somewhere around 2 minutes of this eyes fixed a reel cut missing from the soundboard of 2-26-73. The section I am talking about is from somewhere around 1:30 to possibly 4:00 (miller version on archive).

DP 28 disc 4 also has a Morning Dew thats been fixed. Using about 0:45 to 1:15 from 1:15 from the archive source of 1973-06-29, depending on which source, of course.

DP 18 also has a segment from 1-31-78's truckin used in its truckin on disc 3.

funny enough, all of these fixes use quite excellent material from the other shows...

I talked to archivist David L. and he said...

"There is not a database of fixes, but virtually
every analog reel-sourced show that's been released has fixes of some sort or another. I remember Dick explaining the fixes (from another show) on Dick's Picks 1, and I was so impressed with what they did with that. There are are many fixes from other shows, sometimes as little as a couple of seconds, sometimes a verse or chorus of a song."

Can anyone think of any others that they've stumbled upon?

Anyone think that they should include this info with the release?

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Poster: Pat Buzby Date: Jul 25, 2012 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

On DP 20 (9/28/76) "The Wheel" drum intro is from a different show. Shortly after Jerry and the others join in it crossfades back to 9/28.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 24, 2012 4:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

Ah ha! Almost like the day I found out Euro 72 was dubbed! [I died a little that day...my live "we are always true to our fans" band caught, cheating!]

Seriously, I think it should be described in the notes, etc.

Interesting catch.

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Poster: ice9freak Date: Jul 24, 2012 5:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

To take it to the next level, does anyone know of "fixes" such as the ones in question on the '72 Box? That would give me pause.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 25, 2012 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

I have always thought that they should be upfront with this sort of thing, not because I think it is wrong, and they are hiding something, but I would help us be aware of the work they go into to make these releases .I may not always agree on their technical , or artistic decisions (mixing Keith lower in the E72 box, for instance), but just tell us what, or why you are doing what they are doing what they do . We are big boys, and girls now , we can take it . It would also make us aware how rough shape some of these tapes are in .

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Poster: high flow Date: Jul 24, 2012 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

Interesting.
I don't know of any other examples, but yeah the information should absolutely be provided in the album notes. Do they think they are playing with kids? It's not about full disclosure as much as it is about completeness and the thirst for knowledge within the community of collectors. Have they not realized that we find smallest of details enthralling?

Not that these are small details. Point is, if somebody could give us the definitive stats on the length of the inseam of the short-shorts of Weir, we'd listen intently.

This post was modified by high flow on 2012-07-24 21:28:17

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 24, 2012 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

couldnt agree more. I mentioned that in my original email and emphasized that in my response. I really hope he does and i think it would be great if you or anyone else who agrees should email him stating so.

cheers

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jul 25, 2012 5:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

"if somebody could give us the definitive stats on the length of the inseam of the short-shorts of Weir, we'd listen intently." we would?

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jul 24, 2012 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

Excellent post!

I believe that several of the Road Trips releases have been "fixed" as well.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 24, 2012 2:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

thanks. Yea from what david said, we should likely assume all. Some are easier to hear than others, the DP 28 dew has a clearly noticeable change in sound.

I just hope my beloved DP 23, 39 minute TOO wasn't touched. What a masterpiece.

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 24, 2012 3:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

The beginning of the Eyes from 6/26/74 on DP12 is actually from 6/22/74

It's literally the first three measures; then they switch very skillfully to the 6/26/74 version.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jul 25, 2012 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

MC mentioned a couple earlier on -
http://archive.org/post/357234/nefarious-activities-in-dead-releases

I'm surprised they were doing it as early as DP1.
Well, Lemieux may not mean patching in particular - by "fixing," many times they'll probably just quietly edit out a reel cut (like when one's in a jam & is non-replaceable). There are lots of instances of that, from DP1 on, in practically any long jam.
Then there's the few times they use audience patches, which I'm glad about.
On DP4 they patched the Dead's 2/70 soundboards with the Fillmore crew's tapes.
When taking an SBD bit from another show, I wonder how often this is done in one of the "little songs" that no one would ever notice. I seem to remember Lemieux mentioning that once in a BEW or something, but I don't remember where. Probably it's only when they do a complete set/show; in that case it could be easily traced by comparing it with the circulating copy w/ cuts.
In fact, the best way to create a "DP fixes database" is just to note the reel cuts on all the shows they've released, and see what they did in those spots.

I think it's a good practice, but it is rather secretive of them not to mention it in the notes.

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Jul 25, 2012 2:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

Maybe my logic is flawed but I feel they may have not been discrete about this simply because they figured no one would ever know! Most of the DP came out before the IA and all these internet resources that give us access to many shows that never circulated or were quite rare. I cant comment on shows like 6-22-74 or 6-29-73 as far a how well they circulated prior to IA, but they seem like obscure tapes to me. I noticed with the Road Trips series they started using audience patches more which would have been, to my knowledge, unacceptable before, especially in the early days of the DP series.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jul 25, 2012 3:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

"they figured no one would ever know!"
Very likely. Most people still don't know.
Prior to 6/7 years ago, this kind of easy comparative listening for every show was much more difficult, and certainly not anticipated by the DP crew.

The audience patches are a more recent thing - that step wouldn't have been considered in the '90s. (Though Phil did use an audience tape for his Fallout From the Phil Zone, it was a superior AUD.)

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Poster: Pat Buzby Date: Jul 25, 2012 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fixed cuts in officially released shows

I remember Dick mentioned the DP1 fixes a bit in Dupree's Diamond News, saying that "Weather Report Suite" was a major surgery, or something like that.